Yes I have seen a misguided ROTC cadet DEMAND a salute from an E-9 once. What is the TO&E and where is the cadet slotted? Command Sergeant Major: CSM Scott Drewes: The West Point Band (also known as the U.S. Military Academy Band or USMA Band) is the U.S. Army's oldest active band and the oldest unit at the United States Military Academy, traces its roots to the American Revolutionary War. Command Sergeant Major Robert T. Craven 26th Command Sergeant Major United States Corps of Cadets, West Point CSM Robert T. Craven hails from Swords, Louisiana and enlisted in the U.S. Army in March 1995. I think the part of the reg people have over looked is "the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier will assume command". So fairly similar arrangement as with cadets. When I was a 2LT, I always took the fact that Vietnam vets 4-10 years older than I was were saluting me as an obligation to do my best to earn that salute. Maj. Roderick Taylor (USAG West Point Command Sergeant Major) October 14, 2016. You have to look at national guard and the reserves. But only a complete cadidiot would get his or her cadet rank confused with an NCOs authority and influence. A (knight) officer is a commissioned officer and formally addressed as "SIR!" How would a cadet be regularly assigned? Is the cadet attached or assigned a leadership position? If you've ever been in a doctor's appointment and a medical student was assigned to your doctor, that's about how cadets in CTLT and SMP function. For some reason a lot of angry major S3 types fall into this category. Some points I wanted to make sure I hit are: -No, you don't have to call them sir/ma'am or salute them, but you absolutely should show them the respect you would like to receive. It was priceless to see the look of surprise on my former XOs face when I walked into my old unit on a drill weekend. Period. As a CDT, I was generally treated pretty well at my unit, this could have been because I was Mustang Officer in training and a former NCO, and that my CO was part of the cadre at Western Illinois, so she made it a point to assign me to a vacant officer position, in this case kind of a huge assignment as the Maintenance PLT LDR at a MED Truck CO, whereas most units dont even know what to do with a CDT. Command Sergeant Major Glidewell entered the United States Army in July 1981, and completed Basic Training at Fort Jackson, SC. Haha. This article reminded me of something that raised a question for me after I received my commission and that had to do with LTs saluting each other. West Point Staff Deputy Chief of Staff: Adjutant General (G1) Deputy Chief of Staff: Strategic Plans and Assessment (G5) Chief Information Officer/G6 Deputy Chief of Staff: Operations, Plans, Training, Force Protection, International Affairs and Security Cooperation Inspector General Office of Diversity, Inclusion and Equal Opportunity SHARP Office Scott welcomes story ideas and feedback on his articles, and can be reached athavokjournal@havokmedia.com. As it turns out, West Point cadets *do* outrank Army noncommissioned officers (NCOs). While being true you must also realize there is a need for Commissioned Officers as well as Non Commissioned Officers. Am forwarding this to my son. Give credit where its due and stop making it about you. Per the order, they are not entitled to a salute. Thank you! Im a Senior WO and I can personally attest to the height of arrogance the NCO Corps exercises today. First off the reg says regularly assigned personnel, which the Cadets are not. So I think he had it right. NEW! If married his spouse is always addressed a "Lady so and so.". Master Sergeant Carla Loy Song became a member of the West Point Band in 2007. NCOs are the backbone of the Army and run the Army day to day (as opposed to commanding it). A little ancient cadet history for anyone interested. Medical students are not in this hierarchy at all except they answer to doctors and do only what a doctor tells them to, under that doctors supervision. While in New York, she won second prize in the Alexander and Buono International Flute Competition. For example, if a division headquarters and headquarters company commander is temporarily absent, the executive officer as the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier who performs duties within the headquarters company would assume command and not the division commander. Almost, like her husband, an officer and a lady. They are legally considered E-5 equivalent, and aren't Branch qualified. Cadets and NCOs do not salute one another. The Army is investigating a command sergeant major at West Point who used a semi-anonymous Twitter account to criticize elected officials and former President Donald Trump, the Daily Caller reported Thursday. I retired ten years ago as an 11B SNCO with 26 years in service and a star on my CIB. 2014 - 2016: Command Sgt. Technically, they aren't even qualified to fulfill a team leader slot. We had a young know it all LT around the COMS tent he starts looking around and I see him messing with the ground strap the future leader of our troops disconnected it. I always say Semper Fi or Airborne when I return salute. I'm popping into the conversation late, but I completely agree (not that you can argue with the regs). Staff Sergeant Chrissy Rivers joined the West Point Band in September of 2010. One of these ignorant academy types was my battalion XO at Fort Ord. 2-8. Something went wrong while submitting the form. Something I wish I knew 50 years ago. If you run a command climate where you relegate your NCOs to small picture things, you will be a small picture unit and your good NCOs will find their way out of your unit and you will be left with small picture, tunnel vision type folks such as those that you describe. They act only under the auspices of their supervising physician. Simple professionalism is another, Respect the service, respect the service member. You see there is a important reason that the strap be properly secured to the six foot ground rod driven into the ground. You probably dont salute WOs either because you think theyre beneath you as well. We promise not to send you more than one email a week! It is a chain of command situation. Don't assume a damn thing, if a young NCO or Soldier tells you he "thinks" the vehicle is ready or has a full tank of fuel, hand him a long stick, send him back to the Motor Pool, have him put the stick into the fuel tank and bring back said stick with fuel on it, that way both of you will now KNOW that the vehicle is fueled. That is why cadets dont go to parade rest while talking to NCOs. Your attitude will get you relegated to a Quonset hut in BFE. Every. 2LT Eisenhower, he was a 6' 3" tall man who was assigned to our platoon in 1992. I work with my leadership and learn from them and they help to shape me to become a good officer. that When in Charge, Be in Charge applies. At the time the pipeline for commissioned officers in the Air Force was ROTC, OCS, Aviation Cadets, and the new USAF Academy whose first class graduated circa 1958. So our government invested thousands on a lying, dishonest, ill-informed, and immature man child to lead others. First, what an insult to a SNCO that instead of a 1SG with 10 plus years of experience leading soldiers in the absence of officers A Cadet would be next in succession. He has developed the course SS493 Music & Influence, which he teaches in the Department of Social Sciences. Each job is as important as the rest. Army command policy is clear the definition of terms. Somewhat surprised by this, and thinking back to my own experiences in CTLT, I asked why he felt that way. In my case I was lucky and had a CO who was ROTC cadre and knew what to do with me. Mark C. Quander Brigadier General , US Army 79th Commandant of Cadets After enlisting in the US Army in 1984 as a Field Artillery surveyor, Master Sergeant (Promotable) Jeffrey Morris found his way to the Cyber Branch via the Air Force Institute of Technology in Ohio, earning a PhD in Systems Engineering and a follow-on assignment as the Sergeant Major of the Army Cyber Institute at West Point. Yet I would not want a Year 1 WP cadet in charge of a company. You'll be hearing from us soon! They are TDY for a few weeks therefore their authority only extends to West Point. It is the oldest of the five American service academies and . A honorific form of address indicating respect but only for officers under the rank of knight. Just try it. "b. *Back to the story: At first, I let things go and decided someone had to be tough on these kids, but after a while, I couldn't let it roll on. We are all us. I was one of Cohens blue to gold mustangs in the 90s. And yet, the UCMJ does hold all commissioned officers, including CW2-CW5, accountable for their behavior, as they are subject to Article 133, Conduct Unbecoming and Officer and Gentlemen. A wise cadet will be mindful of their position. Only through a wriiten agreement from the pms tonthe guard commander are allowed to serve as acting LT's. Oh please. Incorrect. (2) If the commander of a headquarters and headquarters element dies, becomes disabled, retires, is reassigned, or is temporarily absent, the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier of the particular headquarters and headquarters element who performs duties within the element will assume command. I request you review 600-20again. Youre right, Sergeant, a West Point cadet DOES outrank you. I bet they could not even remember my name. Then we'd mow the guy down with an M4. The key to success in your career is understanding the strengths and weaknesses of your key players AKA your subordinate leaders and junior Soldiers. Scott welcomes story ideas and feedback on his articles, and can be reached at, ts summertime, and for many cadets in the Armys ROTC programs and at West Point, that means . The cadet qualifies here too because s/he is obviously present for duty, as assigned. But short of that, cadets can end up in just about anywhere. Prior to serving in the Army, he was a high school percussion instructor and earned a Bachelor of Arts in music from Truman State University in Missouri. The Cadet wr had wrote all of us NCOs that trained him, some. I spent 3 years as a MSG and never saluted a cadet. Or a sergeant major for that matter. CTLT happens in all kinds of units, both in the US and OCONUS. But having learned this, it made me wonder when this would actually matter in any meaningful way. He earned his Bachelor of Music in trumpet performance and music education from Ithaca College in Ithaca, New York. Aviation Cadet training was 15 months. Knights lifted their helmet to recognize they friends from enemy. CSM Craven has a Bachelor of Science in Criminal Justice from Colorado Technical University and a Master of Science in Management from Excelsior College. While the other sources trained and commissioned officers for all USAF career fields, the Aviation Cadet Corps produced only pilots and navigators. He graduated with a Master of Music in composition from Bowling Green State University and a Bachelor of Music in composition from the Capital University Conservatory of Music. Youre right, Sergeant, a West Point cadet DOES outrank you. She has also worked as a freelance designer for local musicians and events. No, I always salute them and treat them as officers, and I make sure everyone else does too, he replied in total sincerity. While Deployed with the Corps in support of Operation Inherent Resolve, he also assumed duties as the Combined Joint Task Force (OIR) J-3 Sergeant Major. 133. I agree totally with enlisted not saluting a cadet. 319th Civil Engineering Squadron. My CWO put him in his place and ask what would this cadet' commanding officer would think of his conduct and told him to leave. Most of us own our own firearms and body armor because we assume nothing but pray for the best. Through conversations, we get better LT's coming out of ROTC or NCO's newly converted to O grade.. And if you think islam is a warm and fuzzy religion, you're way off! Saluting a cadet completely invalidates the First Salute ceremony when they commission. Even if that enlisted man is the Sgt Maj of the Army. And get to know your PBO very well! Throughout his career as both an Airman and Civilian, he has served in numerous assignments at locations: n Chief, Public Works Fort Eustis, VA
Wonder if each Military Academy Of other branches has the same rule/regulation authority.??? You are absolutely wrong. Warrant Officers are formally addressed as "Mister." Adept been officially assigned a position in the chain of command? I wondered how he, as a senior NCO in a highly specialized unit, felt about having cadets around. Does the cadet need to be regularly assigned to a Cadet billet? I really wish I didn't have to speak this way about you kids but most of you did the West Point thing for power or prestige, both of which are useless to Infantrymen, we care less what college you went to, if you can't think on your feat when round crack by you then you get my men killed. Tell the NCO's that you don't want to seem like a dick that you're being so picky on things, you're just building trust so later you know who's good to go and what each of our strengths are and that goes for the young LT as well (that's called humility and the men will understand because it's fair). Share mutual respect and work together is the name of the game. Prior to his assignment at West Point, Sergeant Major Schlegel was assigned to the U.S. Army Medical Command Band at Fort Sam Houston, Texas, where he served as the personnel and administration branch chief and performed as principal trumpet in the Concert Band, Jazz Combo, and Rock Band. Hope this was brief enough for you or TL:DR? Point is that one never knows what lies down the road so I try to treat everyone with respect regardless of their rank or position. CSM Cravens military education includes all levels of the Non-Commissioned Officer Education System culminating with the United States Army Sergeants Major Academy. Both have an option for Cadets to be apart of a simultaneous membership program. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. NCO's look at big picture constantly, good officers are aware of this and cultivate this. Specifically, it allows them to try their hands at officership, and to get a feel for the kinds of officer/NCO relationships that are essential to the success of our Army. Scotts writing focuses largely on veterans issues, but he is also a big proponent of Constitutional rights and has a deep interest in politics. This author wrote an excellent piece. And I declined two Bronze Stars because some senior Officer decided to dispense them for every Officer and Senior NCO in theater! Mr. Erik D. Mitchell assumed the position of Deputy to the Garrison Commander, USAG West Point (IMCOM Directorate - Training), on December 20, 2020. Without our outstanding NCO Corps counterparts, there would be no outstanding officers. As he worked in our platoon, we all quietly covered for him, especially when he got misoriented now and then (analog land nav isn't simple, especially when mounted) after a few months he was squared away and we taught him our secrets and he never betrayed us. . Nurses don't outrank med students or vice-versa. During my time in the regulars, I encountered a couple of West Point Grads who, in my opinion had amused contempt for enlisted personnel below the rank of E5. GO ARMY! Hooah!!! This gives cadets going into their final years of pre-commissioning training the opportunity to experience life in an active duty unit. Garrison Command Sergeant Major :: West Point U.S. Army Garrison West Point America's Oldest U.S. Army Garrison & Home to the United States Military Academy Command Sgt. Greetings from West Point and welcome to the Commandant's Corner. After graduating from high school, they both felt called to enlist, and became clerks. And cadets initiate salutes to any commissioned officer. I think that it would be a huge step in the right direction for the ROTC BNs to send their CDTs to their gaining units with an LOI/MOU pinned to their chest (Im sure ROTC has probably published guidance along those lines, but Ive never seen it) so that those commanders will have some idea what to do with those CDTs when they get there. In fact, based on my experience there are some West Pointers out there who never learned that. Commander Navy Region Europe, Southwest Asia, Africa, n Senior Advisor, Installation Management Kabul, Afghanistan
$9.99 + $6.85 shipping . I was an enlisted man and my rank at the time of my discharge in the late Summer of 1989 was Sergeant E5. America's Oldest U.S. Army Garrison & Home to the United States Military Academy Col. Anthony "Tony" J. Bianchi Colonel Anthony J. Bianchi is from Tampa, Florida and was commissioned in the Field. Anyway. Read the regs CAREFULLY people, when you want to use them to make a point. which makes it pretty clear that West Point cadets do, in fact, outrank Army NCOs. When I contracted under the SMP I was administratively promoted to the rank and pay grade of E-5 ( I had served two years previously in the Army Reserve as a junior enlisted 11B). The ones that get emotional about my post will reply as expected and miss the lesson altogether because they've been hard wired to respond that way. Cadets are Officers period and should be rendered the appropriate courtesy. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders and as such know who and where you are able to receive the BEST mentorship and hands on experience. And yes the officer corps views your spouse as just a "wife.". Your email address will not be published. I too am an honorably discharged Army Vet from an Army family. Joseph John Quichocho, 1SG E-8 RETIRED US ARMY. To this day I credit a lot of the success I had when I went on active duty after I graduated to this great NCO. It goes both ways and without Officers the Army would surely still fall apart. I was assigned to the 25th ID in 1972. This regulation shows that cadets rank after commissioned and warrant officers, but before NCOs. As a mom of a cadet thank you! Naval Facilities Command Expeditionary Warfare Center, n Region Security Engineer Naples, Italy
Seems like the worst kind of leader to have. I thought this is a very well written article. You know this, you are assigned as whatever rank you have in the guard. Technically. Everyone knows that the lowest Army private outranks the highest cadet right? Long story short: Years of hands-on experience trumps reading an instruction manual, This applies in every situation and every single time. Her accolades include a Grammy Award for "Best Engineered Album - Classical," engineering and mastering credits on multiple Grammy-nominated albums, an "Award of Excellence" from the Audio Engineering High Resolution Recording Competition, and a Downbeat Award for "Best Engineering for a Live Recording." I do not cater to idiots and refuse to acknowledge someone that does not even respect the rank they expect their subordinates to respect. (Still, there is no need to salute them. The one group that actually gave us respect and tried to help and mentor us were the senior NCOs. They won't forget what you've shown them and they will resent you. After just two years of military service, Poe attained the rank of Sergeant Major for Artillery, the highest enlisted rank open to him. Podcast WEST POINT, NY (Oct. 14, 2016) - The U.S. Army and the U.S . They dont commission until CW2 but I guess they dont really count as Officers either. Staff Sergeant Taylor is an accomplished composer whose works have been internationally published and performed. The cadets are not is always addressed a `` Lady so and so. `` levels... Angry Major S3 types fall into this category to West Point cadets * *... Our own firearms and body armor because we assume nothing but pray for the best ( opposed. My discharge in the chain of command national guard and the reserves situation and every time! Without officers the Army would surely still fall apart the us and.... 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